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The Meeting of '06 was an emergency meeting of players and staffers of Otherspace, called by Brody to convene on January 1st, 2006, 4:30 PM EST, in the Dream Tavern located off the general OOC area. Ever dwindling numbers of players and RP in Otherspace had been cause for alarm on all sides; this meeting was to address this issue.

What follows is the log of said meeting, edited for privacy of personal information, but otherwise unchanged. As this was an OOC event, channel chatter has been left in.


Dream Tavern

Faint wisps of fog drift across the floor of this rather generic-looking tavern, twisting among the legs of chairs that may be wood, plastic or metal - it is not too clear - and the tables those chairs encircle.

At the midst of the tavern is a central horseshoe-shaped bar counter and behind it, one can usually find the proprietor of your choice.

Freyssinet arrives from Dream Nexus.

Freyssinet has arrived.

LeBeau arrives from Dream Nexus.

LeBeau has arrived.

Freyssinet makes her way through the crowd and pounces on the Marson, too.

Marson oofs!

Denson prepares the elephant tranq gun.

Hammer hides in his toolbox.

Freyssinet is not an elephant, thank you, Den!

Denson says, "For Brody, dammit."

Freyssinet nods to Denson. "I prefer that. Avoid phencyclamine as anaesthesic, though, might give him (and us) a bad trip."

Denson says, "... You mean, we aren't on one already?"

Denson says, "Hell, what were the last five years? :>" Freyssinet giggles.

Silvereye says, "Bush's Administration?"

Marson cries

Brody arrives from Dream Nexus.

Brody has arrived.

Hammer lame political joke alerts!

Freyssinet says, "Silver, that is a very american point of view, if I may dare!"

Eucharius throws a rock at Brody.

Denson says, "Qualifies as a a bad trip, wouldn't you say."

Denson hides the elephant tranq gun.

Freyssinet sharpens her legendary scalpels.

Hammer lays down as a bridge for Brody.

4 says, "tkyou :)"

Brody says, "Join is still broken ;)"

Eucharius says, "Maybe you're broken."

Denson says, "Dude. Join borked? Hell, meet handbasket. ;)"

Brody slaps Euch around.

Eucharius ows.

Khan arrives from Dream Nexus.

Khan has arrived.

4 oh yeas

Silvereye shrugs at Frey. I'm American. The world is my turbulent oyster.

Freyssinet facepalms. The world is an oyster? Now, that is a bad dream!

Denson says, "No, it's shellfish."

Silvereye stares at Frey. "Do you have THE BRAINWORMS?"

Denson says, "(Blackstone would be proud of us.)"

Freyssinet says, "Shush, you're gonna scare the newbies!"

Hammer is scur'd.

Denson peers. "What do you think my expressed purpose on OS is?" :D

Silvereye looks around. "We have newbies?"

Brody says, "I was gonna say, Silv. :)"

Denson is without purpose! Oh vey.

Swiftfoot arrives from Dream Nexus.

Swiftfoot has arrived.

Eucharius waves.

Silvereye says, "Demarians represent!"

Swiftfoot waves. "Sorry I can't stay long. I'd have liked to be at the meeting, but last minute RL plans, alas."

Denson fistshakes at Swift.

4 is here and is the coolest.

4 has LOTSA ideas.

4 nods knowingly.

Silvereye pffts at 4. "You're just a number."

Eucharius is just here to listen... :P

Bahamut says, "It must be upsetting to know that 5 is, and will always be, greater than you."

Silvereye is here to speak for those who cannot speak.

Denson gasps! "Even Rarrie showed up. My word, the place is getting to look like an OS All Stars Reunion." :>

Freyssinet just cuddles against lebeau.

Brody says, "VanMahr was here last night too ;)"

Bahamut is here to observe, and eat people who annoy Brody. >.>

Silvereye sweets. I'm an all-star.

Denson says, "You kidding."

Brody says, "Nope. His once-a-year stop."

Swiftfoot makes sure not to annoy Brody. And edges away from Bahamut, just to be safe. Silvereye pffts at Swifty. "Don't mind the dragon."

Eucharius nods.

Valerie arrives from Dream Nexus.

Valerie has arrived. Icarus says, "He's still the greater winged one though... partly why I no longer am purely wing based."

LeBeau pulls Frey into his lap and hugs her close.

Denson says, "Nice to see some people care enough to check back into the old haunt even after so long a time."

Brody noddles :)

4 smacks Lebeau, "No PDA."

Swiftfoot waves. "Oops, time to take off. Just wanted to let the people that I'd told that I would be here, why I wasn't here."

Brody waves

Swiftfoot has disconnected.

Brody says, "Thanks."

LeBeau looks to 4 and then cuts her in half so now she is only a 2.

Eucharius says, "Wouldn't she be two 2s?"

Silvereye says, "My god she's multiplied."

Brody says, "God, don't give us more."

Bahamut nods. "She'd still be four." o.o;

Icarus says, "+dolfsay might have to be recoded."

Eucharius says, "Dolf is a constant."

Denson says, "Constant annoyance."

Bini has disconnected.

Brody ooohs

Silvereye quirks a brow at Ic. "It was decoded?"

4 taptaptaps.

4 is anxious to start@

Bini has connected.

Brody says, "Anxious to start @booting"

Denson says, "Anyhow. There is no Dolf."

Icarus says, "No, but if she's 2 2s... it's a different matter."

Icarus says, "It's still on the literati scoreboard."

4 peers, "Denson....we're here for someting serious so i'll hold off on killing you."

Brody says, "Oh, it's not so serious that you can't kill Denson."

Quicksilver arrives from Dream Nexus.

Quicksilver has arrived.

Hammer says, "Glee!"

Denson says, "Yeah, seriousness has never stopped anyone from killing on OS."

Announcement: Brody shouts, "The OOC meeting will start ... shortly. Assuming I don't snap at 4:26 and go medieval on everyone with a frying pan."

Freyssinet waves to the other Silvery demarian

<Public> Hammer says, "That wouldn't really be medieval.. more like, enraged housewife on us with a frying pan."

<Public> Hammer has never been enraged housewifed before!

<Public> Quicksilver says, "If you kill a Hammer with a nail, is that irony?"

<Public> With an AK-47 under her hat, Valerie nails Hammer?

<Public> Quicksilver high fives Valerie for her pun appreciation.

<Public> With an AK-47 under her hat, Valerie hifives!Q

<Public> The Big. The Bad. The Denson says, "It's six thirty in the morning and my dedication is as steel. Frying pans do not scare me."

<Public> Aleksei can hardly wait for 4:26. "Never seen Bro snap before. ;)"

<Public> Quicksilver says, "It's already 4:26, by my clock."

<Public> Aleksei says, "really?..oh yeah, just reached 4:26 my way. :)"

<Public> The Big. The Bad. The Denson says, "Bro has the only clock that matters at this point. ;)"

<Public> Quicksilver brings a motion before the operations committee to unplug Bro's clock.

Announcement: Brody shouts, "PLANETMAN IS HEREBY APPROVED AS PRESIDENT OF THE NEW GREEN MARTIAN LEGION!"

<Public> With an AK-47 under her hat, Valerie says, "Oh dear god."

<Public> Hammer says, "Yes!"

<Public> Quicksilver cheers!

Announcement: Bahamut shouts, "I, for one, welcome this new twinky Overlord."

<Public> The Big. The Bad. The Denson says, "I've been waiting for this for five years."

<Public> Aleksei cheers! "About time too. :)"

<Public> Born with the smile of an Angel, and the eyes of the Devil LeBeau says, "It is the end of all things"

Announcement: Fishbreath shouts, "Ten FishyPoints for that quote."

Brody clears his throat, snapping complete.

<Underworld> Swiftfoot has connected.

Swiftfoot has connected.

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "Hi, Kas. Swifty."

<Public> Aleksei says, "btw, what IS the New Green Martian Legion? :P"

<Public> Swiftfoot says, "Hi again. :)"

Denson says, "Outbackers would still whup t"

Denson says, "Their asses."

Kastaprulyi arrives from Dream Nexus.

Kastaprulyi has arrived.

Brody prepares to talk and such.

<Underworld> Anastasia has connected.

<Ungstir> Anastasia has connected.

<Public> http://tinyurl.com/chqwc Kastaprulyi wavies.

<Public> Anti-Citizen 6 Silvereye says, "Ace."

<Public> Quicksilver lifts his head, peers at the invader. "I'm busy washing sticky buns out of the kits' fur. Come back later." Resumes scrubbing.

<Public> Anastasia says, "Hi all"

Brody clicks a button. Makes a podium magically appear. Walks up the dragon's back to stand at the podium.

Bahamut mutters.

Anastasia arrives from Dream Nexus.

Anastasia has arrived.

Bahamut sits still. Glares at people. "Silence, mortals. The Great Brody will now speak."

Amanda arrives from Dream Nexus.

Amanda has arrived.

4 sorries and is back

Denson sits on Bahamut's head, for a better vantage point in sniping.

Khan gets out popcorn.

Brody says, "Thanks for coming. I know it's New Year's Day and some of you are still recovering from New Year's Eve, so I appreciate you making the effort to be here. You've probably read my rather bleak State of the MUSH report, in which I flat-out described OtherSpace as 'anemic.' That assessment led me to think of what might need to be done to shake things up, to bring in and *keep* new blood. One of the paths I pondered, naturally, was an ROE-style retooling period for OtherSpace. During this period, OtherSpace would shut down, we'd re-vision the theme and rebuild the grid. I entertained quite a few concepts before I came to the conclusion that our problem isn't thematic. So, I considered adding crafting and a more robust around-the-clock trade system. This may still happen, but I'm fairly certain that our problem isn't systemic, either. Re-descing rooms, writing new theme and adding new coded toys won't fix the fundamental problem." Brody says, "To my way of thinking, the problem currently hamstringing OtherSpace is *cultural*. And I must accept a great deal of responsibility for that. See, many of our best players - our most *loyal* players - came to OtherSpace during a period when we required biographies as a passport to get onto the grid. But, nearly three years ago, we switched to a more 'newbie-friendly' character generation process. It's the cattle chute-style process where players pick humanoid or alien, then pick a specific race, then pick a career, and then - BLAM! - as long as they write a passable description and don't screw up the sketch about why they're on Sol Station, they're in the game."

Brody says, "I shifted to the cattle chute for a couple of reasons. First, we didn't have many active or reliable staffers reviewing bios. Second, I'd heard complaints over the years from newbies who felt like the barrier of entry was too high. I wanted to get more bodies on the grid, faster."

Brody says, "I think the cattle chute was successful in getting more bodies on the grid. It *did* make us seem friendlier to newbies. But I think the process is inherently flawed because it doesn't breed longevity or investment in a character. The players who write bios on the front end are less likely to just log off after approval and never come back. They've put in some real time and effort. So, they stick around. The cattle chute gets people in the game faster, but it gets them there without any real commitment on their part in return. And that, I think, is where our cultural problem has festered."

Aleksei arrives from Dream Nexus.

Aleksei has arrived.

Aleksei waves and waits for brody to speak.

Brody says, "Been speaking for a while."

Kastaprulyi sends the speaking to Al.

Brody says, "People who write bios play the game. People who regularly play also commit themselves to the game. People who commit themselves to the game vote proudly for the game using those buttons at www.jointhesaga.com and they +vote for each other. They +rel/rank each other. They run their own plots. They form a fairly tight-knit community that may not be as jam-packed as one of Top MUD Sites' headline MUDs, but remains steadfast and focused on the fun they can have here."

Brody says, "People who don't write bios, who get on the grid with ease, have no incentive to play the game. Those with no incentive to play don't commit to the game. People who don't commit don't vote - not for the games and not for their fellow roleplayers. They water down an otherwise solid community. The fast-food character acquisition breeds a culture where players aren't encouraged to care if their cookie-cutter template character lives or dies or makes a difference in the evolving storyline. That, I think, is at the heart of our cultural dilemma right now."

Quicksilver lifts a paw, but otherwise waits and listens.

Brody says, "One part of the solution, I think, is simply a return to the higher barrier of entry. Bring back required biographies. Make any player who wants to get on the grid *work* for it, so that they're immediately finding ways to mesh themselves into the story (even if it is sort of complicated) and, as a result of this effort, make it harder for them to just go to all that trouble and then disappear. This will also mean a return to people griping that we're elitist snobs because they have to write a bio, but we can respond with the wisdom that comes from hindsight that we've seen what happens to a wonderful RP MUSH when you make it *too* easy to get into."

Brody says, "The other part of the solution is in the hands of our enthusiastic and committed players: Word of mouth. Tell people on Top MUD Sites and the MUD Connector and anywhere else you can think of about OtherSpace. Give them the web address. Print out the handout flier in the Yahoogroups download section and post it or drop a stack in a gaming store."

4 lifts her hand.

Volauniiadae has connected.

Brody says, "That's my part of this meeting done. I'll now open the floor to comments and questions from both players and staffers. Don't just blurt stuff out. You know the drill: Raise your hand and I'll get to you in order. Quicksilver's first."

Denson does the hand raising.

Bluenose raises a hand too.

Volauniiadae handraises on the bloody dvorak keyboaru.

Brody says, "Quicksilver, Denson, Bluenose, and then Dae."

4 had her hand up!

Anastasia says, "You forget number four, who is number two"

Denson says, "Harr, foiled again."

4 cackles.

Brody hears plenty from Dolf as it is. "She can wait :)"

Hammer says, "Har!"

Bluenose sticks his tongue out at 4.

4 bahs ;)

Brody pokes Quicksilver.

Amanda idles very quickly for the food thing

Brody says, "I came with a prepared speech. Out with it!"

Quicksilver says, "I hadn't really thought about things from the angle of character generation, but what you said on it being a cultural problem sort of congealed a few ideas of mine. I can say, on the point of bios and investment, that *one* of the reasons I've stuck around even when I don't play much is that I'm too stubborn to let Quicksilver just die off, because I invested so much story in him. I'd put a tack not so much on the investment, as upon the *kind* of players who tend to app games that write bios. They're storytellers. Some of them are social players, which despite Quicksilver's combat twinkish status is what I tend to be. Some of them are action players. But their action is about the story. The people we seem most to have lost, in my personal estimation, are the people who built IC communities. Once upon a time, we had a dozen thriving little groups scattered across different planets. And I know I harp on traders, but honestly I feel like a lot of the ship captains were among the ones who kept things moving about and lively, while the planet-centered folks gave cores of reliable RP that others could float into and anchor, or float into and out of. Then we hit a point, gradually, where most of the RP was only centered where the admin were, which pretty much meant Ungstir, Sivadian navy, and the various incarnations of Porter's ship. Because those were the places with communities.""

Halloway has arrived.

Quicksilver says, "It seems like most of the players we've lost were community-builders, while the ones we've gained, with some real gems as exceptions, were people who just followed the arcs about, and did nothing in between."

Halloway greets everyone.

Brody says, "If they even followed the arcs."

Denson hail Halloway.

Quicksilver nods

Brody says, "Mostly, they log off and never come back."

4 would like to point something out.

Brody will let QS finish. :)

4 notes you mentioned RP centered were the admin were but thinks its important to realize that part of the reason for that is that we often take those folks who *are* community builders and because they're succesfful at that make them admin.

Brody sighs

4 eyeshifts and nods, taking her ritalin and sitting

Brody says, "When I say I'm letting someone finish, please let em finish."

Brody grins

Eucharius has something to say, too. Sits back.

4 was horrible in highscohol ;)

Denson says, "Is that like alcohol?"

4 says, "yea, both kil brain cells"

Denson says, "I noticed. :D"

4 grins.

Aleksei says, "Yeah, but in highschool, Den. :P"

Bahamut peers.

Hammer shhhs.

Quicksilver nods to 4's point. A lot of the admin are/were community builders. The community builders are the ones who can keep people getting together just to get together, not just to have a fight or whatnot. People tended to not do anything in between major events. There were no real social leaders, with certain gems such as Mika excepted. :>

Brody nods to QS. "Just let us know when we need to move on to the next hand. :D"

Quicksilver grins, move on is fine now. :>

Swiftfoot hops into the queue behind Eucharius, raising a paw.

Brody says, "Denson."

Denson nods.

Halloway adds her hand to the queue as well.

Scyphus arrives from Dream Nexus.

Scyphus has arrived.

Valerie raises her coffee mug.

Eucharius steals it.

Scyphus waves to the assembled.

Halloway waves with her unraised hand.

Volouscheur arrives from Dream Nexus.

Volouscheur has arrived.

Brody peers. "Why is Halloway IC?"

Bahamut says, "Because I @tel'ed."

Brody ohs

Bahamut will @tel back later. :>

Brody says, "No problem."

Halloway blames the dragon.

Brody was worried it was a broken RPLOC.

Denson says, "It's actually rather funny that you've stressed that particular point, because hardly two days ago I was talking to the SO -- whom I got into MU*ing be showing her that certain Firefly MUSH Vlad runs these days ;) --, and she mentioned that she thought it odd and counterproductive that OS, of all places, had no bio system in place. That got me to think and I actually was going to make that same point here today, except you had to go and take the wind out of my sails once again, damn you. :D But what's more to the point, bios were good not only because they represented an initial investment into the character and emotion bond to it (which is, incidentally, what kept Denson alive this long), but it also is important in one other facet."

Brody says, "It gave us stuff to make fun of?"

4 loves making fun of bios.

Marson says, "The bad bios were hilarious, it took me weeks to stop laughing after some of them."

Eucharius says, "Is that healthy?"

4 says, "laughings good for the soul"

Brody says, "Healthier than a centipede."

Volouscheur says, "For which side? The laugher or the laughed-at?"

Marson ACKS!!

Kastaprulyi gets in line for comment.

Halloway says, "Both. Being laughed at breeds a healthy sense of humility."

Eucharius says, "Or a resentment which you draw down into a tight ball of seething rage, and then release it by shooting up a mall or something. :P"

Brody eyes Eucharius. "Ya need help, son."

Scyphus thinks as long as the admin are kind enough not to laugh in the player's face, it's all good. If you get a stressed out admin, they stop doing anything. Laughter should help prevent that.

Eucharius is just stating possible alternatives.

[OOC] Quicksilver joins the end of the queue for some additional thoughts

4 needs someone to tell her when its her turn

Brody says, "Oh, we'll tell you, Dolf. We'll tell you."

Brody says, "But, right now, Denson is telling us the other important facet."

Brody says, "Slowly. But he is telling us."

4 peers and plucks a bag of cheetos from the floor, "It *better* be my turn by the time i finish this bag of cheetos."

4 notes Denson's opinoin does't count anyways.

Valerie says, "Or you'll hold yoru breath til you turn blue, dolf? :D"

Brody says, "No, but his opinion does."

Denson says, "OtherSpace is one of the few original content places around, and has seen a humongous amount of information that was important ICly, OOCly, or, as happens all to often, in either regard. :) Demanding a bio from people meant that, regardless of the actually quality of the end result, people actually went and sought for the information relevant to their characters. People asked on Newbie, Questions, over page -- wherever the info was, people went after it. That meant they had not only more knowledge of theme, but it also gave them contacts to the existing player base, perhaps even giving them an RP hook right out of chargen. That, I think, is the other important facet that has dropped away with turbo chargen."

4 glances up, "Damn. He had a good point."

Brody says, "I don't disagree, Denson, but I think you don't give enough props to the facet of mockery. Speaking of mockery - Bluenose!"

Denson says, "As it is, our elitism coupled with the turbo chargen approach is a rather... explosive mixture."

Brody says, "It's only explosive if the two types meet. They really don't. Thus, we have all the explosiveness of a wet match these days. We'll work on that :)"

Eucharius says, "Is the match wet with gasoline?"

Brody misses the days when blowing up a planet and killing 30 players would cause some actual OOC trauma. "Today, no one would notice."

4 smiles sweetly.

Denson says, "Not even if they were on it, yeah."

Freyssinet coughs.

Khan has reconnected.

Khan has partially disconnected.

Brody peers at Bluenose. "Are you steeping your tea or composing an epic?"

Volauniiadae would still cry. ;P I have chars on all of em.

Bluenose has reconnected.

Brody pokes Bluenose. "Your turn."

Scyphus thinks he's reconnecting, Brody.

Bluenose eyeshifts.

Aleksei staples Bluenose

Hammer thinks Scyphus may be right.

Denson says, "Funny noone ever sold I Survived Ritter shirts the way they marketed Nemoni hats."

Brody jumps on the Scyphus-is-right bandwagon.

Bluenose actually isn't quite ready yet to say what he wanted to say... wonders if he could be skipped for a moment.

4 finishes her bag o cheetos.

Brody says, "Oh, sure. Dae?"

Eucharius says, "Go get another one and stop your complaining, Dolf."

Brody laughs

Volauniiadae says, "When I came in today, I was thinking you're right, the issue is player investment. For some reason (heh) I was looking at it from the alting angle, but you're right, Bro, it goes deeper. I think it says something that a lot of the oldbies seem to be lingering, coming back, poking heads in, whichever. Not so many new ones... But on our own, we don't seem to be stable enough to keep it going. And I don't think we're pulling in people with that doeep love of the place, the deep investment in it, to have that momentum that we need. Having said that, the amount I would miss the chance of dropping in and running into Ic, Hammer, Bluenose, Alf, Marson, Wik, elc etc, is unreal. I,d miss you guys more than I'd miss my chars and the RP. I'm willing to invest something if it means that we keep going. And I'm wondering if it isn't that /OOC/ community building we need-- bios mean you need to talk to people to figure out theme, the bad bios rocked to help bind us, There's also the decreasing opportunity we have now to create new theme, since it's so filled in now, where newbies can't get as much of their fingerprints on the world. I'd think of other things if I weren't concentrating so hard on typing."

Denson says, "Hear hear."

4 jumps up and down now having alot to say

Volauniiadae' incoherent at thirty wpm.

Brody chuckles. "You want to add more or shall we let Dolf chime in and make your typing look even better?"

Eucharius snerks.

Volauniiadae says, "Go Dolf go!"

4 says, "I'm not goo at diatribues, but i have alot ot say so bear w/ me."

Brody says, "She's goo all right/"

Hammer just wows at 4.

Denson says, "See Dolf Type. Type Dolf Type!"

4 says, "to being w/ i think folks have made alot of good points that i was gonna make although in slightly different ways. 1) denson mentioned our extensive bg for an original theme mush. I think this is one place where we both hurt and help ourselves."

Volauniiadae says, "Gods, so good to have y'all around."

4 says, "Yes, it makes us a more complete world but for the newbie just starting out its damn difficult to get your claws in because there's an entire world you SHOULD know that you don't know. We made an effort at addressing it w/ Waldheim the problem is you can't leave nebies unsupervized. I'm sorry but i believe in this."

Khan has reconnected.

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "What would we do without Dolf?"

<Public> Aleksei says, "sad to say, I'm not much better. :>"

<Public> Senor de Las Moscas Brody says, "10 percent more coherent."

<Public> The Many-Voweled One, Volouscheur says, "Fewer laughter-induced injuries. :)"

4 says, "Yes, you will ahve some newbies that aren't true newbies and are awesome RPers. But unless they find other awesome reprs they quickly get bored. Its just like children, they need someone to model for them. Thats where our experienced rpers come in."

<Public> Hammer says, "Bam!""

Quicksilver says, "Isolating the newbies off on Waldheim, in light of what we've said about communities and Denson's note about contacts, looks like a factor too."

Silvereye glances at QS. "I was under the impression that Waldheim was a failure in that regard."

Brody nods. "Waldheim never really happened."

Denson says, "Yeah. Didn't really take off."

4 says, "So many times i've seen folks post on the boards time and time again that they'd looking for a <fill in the blank> job and not get a single response. Its why i decided early on that the AES would take in basically anyone 8) and yeah, thats led to some crazy storytelling to expalin why someone is in the org but it served the ooc purpose of giving newbies a place they could go where they had RP hooks and a communiy of folks pulling them into the action. We have to figure out a way of 1) Making the world one a new player can easily slip into."

Brody says, "It was a good-in-theory, meh-in-execution project."

Hammer says, "I don't recall ever seeing Waldheim used to isolate newbies, but more of a hey, we know we got a crapload of backhistory with outdated access to the information, so heres a place you can use to start off and be ignorant on."

Denson says, "I staffed the place, what did you expect. ;)"

Brody nods to Hammer.

Hammer says, "The Wiki does help change things tho..."

4 nods, "it does, but having ted to play a different kind of char on OS i can tell you that for me, who DOES know alot of the theme it was more then a bit difficut.

Hammer says, "Also, I hanged around on LT's landing pad for a long time before I got involved. I'll shuddup after saying that though."

Halloway jumps up and down, hand held high.

Silvereye pffts at Hammer.

Bluenose raises his hand again as he finishes his magnum opus with a flourish of his quill.

Volauniiadae says, "I think talking to people oocly to learn theme is so good for newbies (she repeats) so letting them comi in ignorant may be worse than having them make mistakes."

Denson kicks over Blue's inkwell.

Hammer nods at Day, and chortles at Silver.

4 says, "second point...ooc community building, totally agree vol thats its a huge part of what keeps folks coming back. It's also something that like you pointed out could help newbies get acclimated. We have ooc areas, we need to use 'em. If you're not rping, jump out of RP, hang out in the common area, laugh at one another, get into philisophical discussions, hate one anotehr, whatever :) Even hating one another is better then not talking to one another ;)"

Eucharius says, "I think that could be disputed, personally."

Eucharius eyeshifts.

Brody says, "Bluenose, your turn!"

Hammer says, "OOC Community of hate isn't my idea of a welcom... generally."

Eucharius braces.

Aleksei says, "I prefer IC community of hate, meself. ;)"

Denson says, "Bring back RP Awards, dammit."

Brody says, "Earn em :D"

Denson eyeshifts.

Eucharius calls Favorite Odarite.

Bluenose, now covered in ink, begins. "I have two comments to make, and obviously I make them in my current and future capacity as an outside observer so take them with a grain of salt. The first consists of two premises that might be worth considering, and I think Brody touched upon them when he talked about applications. Premise number one: OtherSpace is not for everyone. Premise number two: OtherSpace is not for everything."

Volauniiadae says, "Dude, you can't BE an oldbie till you've passionately hated the admin."

Bahamut says, "Or have become one. ;>"

Quicksilver was an oldbie before he passionately hated the admin.

Eucharius sagenods.

Bluenose has partially disconnected.

Brody says, "And then passionately hated at least one player. Or another admin."

Quicksilver says, "That came in my latter years."

Volauniiadae says, "Both. That's stage three."

Volouscheur has been passionately terrified of 'em, is that close enough?

Hammer boos at Volouscheur?

4 boots volauniiadae.

Brody says, "Holy crap, she spelled the name right."

Hammer copy,past.

4 smacks bro.

[OOC] Hammer says, "Crap! Paste!"

Silvereye says, "A million monkeys at a million type writers..."

Volouscheur /was/ scared. Mostly not, now, unless she thinks she's done something wrong.

Bluenose glares at everyone who is ignoring his magnum opus.

Eucharius says, "Is it my turn yet?"

Brody snickers

Volauniiadae says, "No, Dolf, it takes so long to type the login..."

Quicksilver is not ignoring your magnum opus.

Brody says, "Do go on, Bluenose. Your eloquence is winning them all over."

Silvereye is waiting for your two points, Bluenose.

4 notes you should always be scared of me volouscheur

Bluenose continues to pontificate, "It's probably a good time now to be very honest about OtherSpace and what its strengths are. If we tried to think of a sentence that describes what makes OtherSpace different from any other MU*, I'm not sure we could do it. OtherSpace does a lot of things very well, some things okay, some things not so well. When Jack Welch took over General Electric, which was a sprawling company that made jet engines and provided financing and made light bulbs and was into broadcasting, he had a rule: first, second or out. If GE wasn't the first or second best in a certain business, it would sell off that business and focus on its strengths."

Bahamut says, "Chatter to a minimum, c'mon. :>"

Quicksilver is not scared of 4. Except when he insults Jimmy Buffet.

Denson is in a hate/love relationship with Bahamut AND Brody, is that enough?

Bluenose says, "Similarly, I think sometimes we have tried here to be all things to all players, and as a result OS is a bit lacking in identity. There are a /lot/ of MU*s out there. There are a lot of science-fiction themed MU*s out there. How does OS differentiate itself from the pack? It might be time to stop telling every newbie who connects that they can do anything they want on OS. In short, I think it's time to do some serious thinking about what OS is all about -- what, to put it in advertising parlance, its unique selling proposition is. Once you've found it, focus on that and stick with it. And by the way -- that's not just aimed at admin, but every player on OS."

4 hushes down as this is a serious matter and bluenose deserves our attention.

Scyphus nods to the clipper.

Bluenose says, "The reason why is where I finally get to my second comment, and it has sortof been made before. Bulletin board posts, +calendar, the Yahoo! Groups list -- they're actually terrible marketing tools for events. They're actually even a little dangerous. I say this with hindsight, because I relied on them far too much. Ultimately, the only reliably effective way to promote OtherSpace and to maintain activity is through personal connections -- community building that is more than just an org leader posting pronouncements from on high."

Bluenose says, "I remember when I did that seminar a few months ago about leadership -- as, well, Cruyer -- that after a few hours Mika came in and mentioned offhand that the Jackals actually got together from time to time and discussed what they wanted to do. And it was like a bolt from the heavens, because, let's be honest, that's not the way most orgs have done things on OS."

Bluenose says, "So in summary, my two suggestions are these: first, identify what OS's strengths are, figure out what's unique about OS, and focus on them, both in marketing and in further development. Second, try to find ways to build communities of peers. Don't just let (and expect) players to invest in their own characters. Find a way to let them invest creatively in the MUSH."

Bluenose says, "Looking back over that, some of it isn't as coherant as I would have hoped... and a lot of it probably sounds like comments from the peanut gallery since I'm not around anymore. But hopefully that provides some food for thought."

Quicksilver thinks he already had his paw up for after the first round, but puts it up if he didn't.

Silvereye thinks it needed to be said, if not stronger.

4 raises hers as well.

Volauniiadae says, "Invest creatively in the MUSH... that is a great phrase."

Amanda has disconnected.

Brody nods to Blue. "Thanks for your thoughts. Want to add more? Or shall Euch speak?"

Bluenose says, "I'm done. I need to get all this ink out."

Brody grins. "Euch. Then Halloway."

Eucharius says, "Really? Wow."

Eucharius clears his throat.

Swiftfoot had a paw up between Euch and Halloway somewhere in there, but can go after Halloway if it's a big deal.

Marson raises a tentacle to be added eventually to the queue.

Brody says, "Euch, Swift, Halloway."

[OOC] Kastaprulyi seems to be after Hallie

Khan has partially disconnected.

Brody nods to Kas. "Then Marson. After that, we'll think about you repeaters."

Eucharius says, "I don't really have all that much to say, except that it's not so much the bio which ties me to a character--it's the character's story. The two characters that I care the most about (this one, and Evir at SW1 if anyone cares) both started without a biography and developed their stories organically over time. Now this one is easily the most emotionally deep character I've ever made anywhere, and the other ended up spawning an entire planet and a month or so of related RP events. I would reiterate my points, but this is about a tenth as long as Bluenose's, and I doubt any of you forgot what I said first, so."

Brody grins.

Eucharius sits down.

Denson says, "What'd he say? I forget."

Denson ducks!

Eucharius mindrapes Denson.

Volauniiadae says, "In-game story or written story, it,s all learning the world through interaction, and it,s the world we end up tied to."

Brody says, "Swiftfoot."

Swiftfoot says, "Okay, first and foremost, I'm speaking from the point of view of a relative newbie, one that used the turbo chargen and never really submitted a bio."

Denson pats his psiblocker.

Brody nods.

Swiftfoot says, "I had the good fortune to have my first encounter be with Mika, who was nice and newbie-friendly, as well as being a fun character to be around. It was that encounter, and the ensuing mayhem with the ship and her crew, that really made me committed to this place, and to the character. It's a lot of fun, and as it stands now, I've got a lot of time and effort invested in the character. I was amazed at how readily they took to having a newbie along on one of their RP sessions. So, while I won't agree that turbo chargen -always- breeds the 'uncommitted' type of player, I'll concede that it certainly seems more likely. That said, perhaps that may be a place to start. Heck, if we go that route, I'll even submit the bio that I have written but never submitted."

Swiftfoot says, "So, I guess you could say I agree with Euch on that."

Valerie's got a suggestion, wherever there's room for her. :)

Swiftfoot says, "As far as newbies getting involved in things, I was waiting for a good long time for official permission (on an ic basis, that is) to do things like hire new people on. While I have to admit, for the most part, Blackjack is perhaps not a good place for newbies to start, you never know! There are those that would be considered 'newbies' here that are actually experienced and mature roleplayers. In any case, I try to RP with everyone I run across, no matter what the circumstances."

Brody noddles.

Swiftfoot sits down and curls her tail around her feet.

Brody says, "Halloway and then Kas, Marson, Valerie."

Quicksilver says, "That's what makes you one of the *good* influx, Swiftfoot. That wanting to RP with everyone you run across."

4 says, "and notice you wrote a bio despite not having to :)"

Swiftfoot says, "yeah, there's a story with that, but I won't tell it now cause it's someone else's turn to talk. ;)"

Halloway ahems.

Halloway doesn't know if anyone's dredged this issue up yet, but here goes. "Many of the most basic problems I've witnessed seem to arise from Otherspace's naturally isolationist landscape. All these different planets are supposed to be RP hubs, yet there are not enough players to support this kind of fragmented environment. Like Bluenose said, Otherspace lacks an overall sense of community. Basically we have many fractured factions -- maybe /too/ many -- and their members lack a consistent reason to be in the same place at the same time, which makes quality RP a difficult proposition. On a related note, one of the most exhilarating moments of online RP that I've ever experience was when my character on RotE received a kind word from Darth Vader himself. It really fostered a sense of belonging in me.

Halloway continues, "As for mandatory character bios, I vote 'Yes!' since they do provide a stable foundation for characters to stand on, thereby providing longevity; I know that I'm more likely to stick with a character I've poured my heart and soul into. Also, someone who isn't willing to spend time on a character bio is probably not looking to make a longterm commitment to Otherspace. I guess 'quality over quantity' is my overall point."

Brody nods.

Volauniiadae handraises.

Halloway phews. "Okay, I'm done."

Freyssinet thinks Halloway has a point. I started when we were all gathered on Sanc, and that sure helped me cross path with loads of players - my "natural team" as the Vannies as well as other chars I may not have met in other conditions, such as Remy.

4 raises her hand.

Brody is of the belief that ships, not planets, are and should be our RP hubs. They are also the bees that pollenate RP on all the planets.

Denson says, "Yay ships!"

Halloway has never RPed on a ship here, not even once.

Hammer should.

Denson says, "Haul that cargo so I can take it off you!"

Brody says, "Not on a ship, necessarily."

Brody is saying that ships form core crews and move about.

Brody says, "See: Jackal and Faux."

Quicksilver says, "Ships make good RP hubs, but that ties into the trade rant. We lost a reason for ships to move. Except for a few captains who wanted to anyway. Such as Mika, and the AES, and the Faux."

Denson says, "Falk was notorious about his crew RPing planetside. :)"

4 adds Artemis to the list.

Brody says, "You don't need trade. You just need good players."

Freyssinet remarks Not everyone can be a pilot, Brody, or want to live on a ship. I refuse to have Frey learn flying for diverse reasons, and the only reason she is on a ship is standing at her side right now

Bluenose tends to think systems aren't the problem.

Halloway nods to Brody.

Brody says, "People need to listen to what I said: Not ON a ship necessarily."

Hammer points the Artemis is doing alright with no trade, but wouldn't mind an easier system.

Brody nods to Hammer

Quicksilver isn't saying systems are the problem. Rather, that they were an encouraging factor to movement.

4 adds herself to the que bro?

Brody says, "I'm saying that ships are good RP hubs, especially because they're mobile."

Silvereye nods. Things rocked when the ship crews were active. Our anemia is directly linked to the decline of the ships for whatever reason.

Brody cut his teeth developing RP around his own ships when he started RPing on the net, after all. Knows whereof he speaks.

Bahamut nods, "That's how Darktail started." :>

Kastaprulyi started the RP career as a "landing-pad greeter" and am currently doing that. Ships are very important but not essiential to that. :)

Bahamut misses the Blue Ruin. ;.;

Quicksilver nodnods. Even Sanctuary, really, was a ship. It just had the world's biggest crew. ;)

Brody says, "Anyway - Kas, your turn, yes?"

Halloway says, "The ship decline is probably related to certain key crew members leaving for whatever reasons, which then causes the rest of the crew to go stagnant."

Marson also remembers the CPS Relativity :>

Denson says, "Tell me about it."

Quicksilver remembers the relativity, too. Freaky Jellies.

Kastaprulyi says, "When I saw Brody's message, I was afraid I was going to be surprised by what Brody had to say, because aside from some minor complaints, I think OS is as great as it used to be. But I agree completely with the comments on chargen and committment. The thing I -liked- about OS was that you made players jump through hoops to get in. That challenge was an incredibly attractive thing and helped to discriminate OS from the other MUs, that and of course the fact that it was completely original in theme. Now, making people jump through hoops and pointing out all their deficiencies can be a frustrating. But you just have to complement that with a willingness to work with the newbies and point them to the appropriate resources. When I was thinking about joining, I tried to read everything I could get my hands on and then ask a million questions that I didn't really need to know the answers to. Marson was extremely patient and helpful in answering every last one (even if the answer was "you tell -me-"). And Brody, I now realize, showed enormous restraint in not kicking me out at that point. :)Now about those complaints/suggestions. I wish we could have voluminous masses of IC news like in the old days. Personally, I want to keep my characters out of most of those murders, bombings, biohazards and the like. Rather I want to be a part of the social -responses- to those events. And I thought Mika's idea of IC planning meetings was wonderful. It's not the only way to go: ICly, AES isn't exactly regimented. My and Kas' pleadings for more info and organization make for fun RP. Marlan handled the requests ICly too, and told Kas to handle the internal communications itself. :) So to summarize: A. Make the newbie want to learn details that will improve their RP. B) Give them those details, tell them where to find them, or tell them to make it up. C) Gently correct or suggest additional tips and plot hooks, both through RP and OOC. D) repeat"

4 notes Marlan's player loves Kas but knows her own weakness AND his strenghts ;)

Denson says, "Oh god, I remember your newbie questions, Kas. You were a black hole for information. ;>"

Eucharius says, "And now Kas is like a black hole for information... if black holes generated anti-gravity."

Halloway has disconnected.

Kastaprulyi hopefully has a nice Hawking radiation glow now, Denson.

Brody nods. "Kas, it's only fair that you know I lead the staff in believing that, in real life, you actually have all the crystalline tentacles and the bell. You're a true Centauran."

Denson says, "Or had tentacles."

Aleksei says, "that's a white hole, Euch."

Hammer Kas is da awesome.

Halloway has connected.

Kastaprulyi says, "Aww, thanks guys"

4 chuckles.

Brody says, "Next up: Marson!"

Halloway fell off the internet.

Brody blames Marson.

Bluenose says, "I, on the other hand, completely without evidence, believe that you travel around the world in a flying house solving crimes. But I am in the minority."

<Public> Howwwwwwwlin' Mad! Murdock runs around naked with a big sign TEH WROLD SI EDNIGN NWO.

4 notes Kas is a constant source of info, its remarkable :) I don't knkow how i'd run the Athena w/o him to do the communication part of it for me. Every time i mention something and he spits out an exact date to me i'm amazed.

<Public> With an AK-47 under her hat, Valerie says, "Put some damn pants on!"

<Public> Howwwwwwwlin' Mad! Murdock gets hauled off, wailing, "Father Mars told me to do it! You can't harm me07:11, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)!"

<Public> Aleksei says, "but almost as good as DOlf's ty..d'oh!!"

<Public> The Many-Voweled One, Volouscheur throws...aw, dang! He logged off already. <Public> She Owns Me. Christian headshakes.

<Public> I don't play chars, I unleash them Volskywalker says, "Ending? It's over."

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "You can write a poem for me and I'll boot him next time he logs in. :P"

<Public> Howwwwwwwlin' Mad! Murdock says, "Not fast enough!"

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "You'll note she didn't write a poem for me yet."

<Public> The Many-Voweled One, Volouscheur is working on it, though. :)

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "If I was trying, I'd put @boot me in Murdock's @aconnect."

<Public> Hammer says, "Nice."

<Public> The Big. The Bad. The Denson says, "That'd be fun."

Marson says, "I know, I know. The MUSH would be in great shape if I hadn't left and stopped delivering all of the wonderful coded toys. Anyway... This is from my experience with being the director for the Centaurans, with a lot of help from Kastaprulyi (well okay, he did most of the work). It would probably good to bring into the new chargen some means of steering players toward the "more active" factions. I think there were a couple people that chose Centaurans, but, there weren't many other Jellyfish to play with. Not everyone has the tenacity to so relentlessly seek out a niche. It would be good to start people off with some kind of connection to an active organization, so they can begin investing right away. We want quality RPers, yes, but we're also competing for them against other MUSHes"

<Public> Aleksei says, "works for me"

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath could be so evil with MUSHcode if he wanted to.

Amanda has connected.

<Public> Marson says, "You have no idea how often I'm tempted."

<Public> Came back with a machete Icarus says, "You made the Russian Roulette gun, right?"

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "Yes I do."

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "If I ran the server... hoo boy."

Marson says, "I'm not necessarily saying, force them to join a certain organization. But, steering them toward one would be good."

Brody is brewing some ideas in that regard.

Brody says, "Valerie?"

4 notes she puts a focus on org leaders there.

Halloway says, "I think that was one of the more enjoyable aspects of RotE. You has an almost immediate sense of belonging, at least on the Empire side of things."

Marson says, "The other thing I wanted to bring up is idle-nuking. I'd like to suggest an amnesty for idle-nuked people, allowing them to come back to the game. One thing I've learned from RPG-Works.Net is that it's easier to get a customer back than to find a new one."

Brody says, "Sorry! Marson, go on."

Hammer suspects we'll hear a rant on how coffee will solve all our problems at Valerie's turn.

Scyphus has reconnected.

Brody says, "Eryn got to come back."

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "I suppose I can see where you're coming from."

Brody doesn't bring back people who don't ask to come back - or who've been written about in news articles as having died ;)

Volauniiadae nods!

Marson says, "It might be good to publish that you let them come back ;)"

Scyphus has partially disconnected.

Brody says, "Eryn can do that herself :)"

Brody expects she will

Marson snickers, "This isn't at all about Eryn. I think she has other alts here, so you haven't lost her."

Brody says, "No, but Eryn was important to her."

Marson nodnods

Marson says, "And that's all :>"

Denson says, "You better believe I'll set all hell in Motion to get Denson back. :)"

Brody says, "The ones that make up the bulk of the death stories never come back anyway ;)"

Brody says, "Okay, Valerie, go ahead!"

Denson says, "We had no accidents with folding shuttle chairs in a while."

Valerie says, "Actually, Swifty already touched on this one... Maybe it's worth thinking about to get the people who don't have bios to make them? If a character's been getting played regularly, it'll be really easy, and if not, then it gives something to think about. Then again, I'm a loony and I write bios for fun, regardless of whether I ever use them or not. ;)"

Valerie says, "You should see my notebook. o.O"

<Public> Sing, Sing, Sing Volauionae throws poetry at Fishie. "Poetry slam!"

Eucharius says, "Should we?"

Valerie says, "Well, no."

Silvereye shakes his head. I'm glad there's no copy of my bio.

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath hllk. Collapse.

Quicksilver personally rewrote 2/3 of his bio and most of his character personality in a 12-hour or so scene with Jest'liana about three months after he joined here.

Brody says, "I've offered XP and free ships in exchange for bios. You can't get most of the fast-food appers to lift a finger."

Valerie :(

Brody says, "The good players write bios whether I bribe em or not ;)"

4 says, "even if its just in their head."

Halloway is writing hers now...

Eucharius wants a ship! I stole it from the Sivadian government, and blew up a frigate with it on the way outsystem.

Silvereye nods to QS. My bio has been fleshed out/rewritten to the point where I wouldn't recognize the first one.

Valerie grins at Silv. "I could write a new bio for like five pages."

Brody says, "Change is fine. The first one got you on the grid :D"

Hammer changed somewhere/sometime radically too.

<Public> Sing, Sing, Sing Volauionae hmms. "Clearly I've lost my touch. He wasn't supposed to asphyxate for another five minutes."

Brody says, "Okay, who was next in this? We back to QS?"

Silvereye was almost kicked off a week later but that's a different story...

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath isn't dead yet. Is convulsing.

<Public> Senor de Las Moscas Brody says, "Well, stop it. Some of us are trying to eat."

<Public> Hammer cprs fish.

<Public> Senor de Las Moscas Brody chews on a fin.

<Public> The Many-Voweled One, Volouscheur gets Fish to...hm, is she supposed to take him to the ER or the vet?

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "...you know, that's a good question."

<Public> Sing, Sing, Sing Volauionae ohhhs, "Vowels."

Volauniiadae is somewhere, and pre-written

<Public> Hammer says, "I just throw them in the toilet."

<Public> Sing, Sing, Sing Volauionae says, "I like that in a name."

Brody says, "QS and then Dae."

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath might prefer a Sivadian vet to a public G'ahnli hospital.

<Public> She Owns Me. Christian says, "Where public = publically traded."

<Public> The Many-Voweled One, Volouscheur takes Fish to the vet, then. 'Cause even if he does need a doctor, a vet'll do in a pinch; they have to know just as much about medicine.

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "Isn't it great how everybody loves me?"

<Public> Senor de Las Moscas Brody is the vet. Puts Fishy down.

<Public> Hammer doesn't.

<Public> Aleksei says, "Don't forget the neutering. :P"

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath stops coding.

<Public> The Big. The Bad. The Denson cheers!

<Public> Senor de Las Moscas Brody ohnoez!

Amanda raises her hand

Brody says, "QS, Dae, and then Amanda."

Scyphus asides that he's more comfortable playing Whitestripe then any of the myriad others, mostly because he had many of his questions about Demmie culture answered, then had to write a bio to further cement that knowledge.

Brody peers at QS.

Brody coughs. "Executive decision: Dae, your pre-typed response!"

Denson thinks he's Falking.

Brody says, "Probably, but we can get Dae's out of the way first :D"

Bahamut says, "He's got the "War and" part so far. "Peace" is taking him a little longer. :>"

Brody says, "Just like Iraq."

Volauniiadae says, "Hubs, and scattered RP: One of the big strengths of OS, less now, is nthat people have opportunities to write backstory and theme and shape the world *because* we have so many spaces. So someone chooses one, 'owns' it, pours effort in it... and then when they burn out there's room for someone to start elsewhere on a relatively blank slate. I think that ownership sense, the investment in theme-beyond-character, is more importance than the inconvenience of making an excuse to go elsewhere, though a fix that incorporates both might be good. We need that ability to write relevent theme available, though obviously pronected somehow. It keeps us dynamic."

Halloway says, "Zing!"

Quicksilver nodnods. Clearly, my long typing is really just an excuse to gain control of the MUSH oil reserves. That, and thumb my nose at the French.

Brody snickers

Volauniiadae says, "That's all."

Denson says, "Hey now. Thumbing noses at the French is an Old Europe prerogative."

Freyssinet grumbles at the other silvery demarian ;) You will feel my wrath!

Brody thanks Dae. Waits for QS. Then Amanda.

[OOC] Quicksilver lets Amanda go first, if she likes. She hasn't had a turn.

Brody says, "Amanda!"

[OOC] Quicksilver says, "that, and RL just called me AFK"

Silvereye ha's! At QS. You're 'the other silvery Demarian' now.

Brody is the portrait of not-at-all-surprised!

Volauniiadae sketches fast.

Amanda adds "I think the bio thing is really good because without them plots become flatter and more generic. Lost is my favorite show it has overreaching mysteriesthings but it's about characters chiefly. I've always admired admin who know a characters story and build it into plots, small plotlings or tps that ask for players help make stuff like that happen have more

Brody nods to Amanda. "Anyone else? Or shall we go back to waiting for QS?"

Icarus has something to add.

Brody says, "Go ahead, Ic."

Amanda says, "it's always good to have spots and opportunities for new folks to jump in but it's far less overwhelming and more engaging at times to play with smaller groups for short periods of time. Plus people have admin/players that they have fun with so they choose participation so that we have less whinining about pcs getting blindsided"

4 personally is a big fan of blindsiding folks :)

Eucharius says, "Is your name Ic? :P"

4 noes Amanda's not reall good at name.s

Quicksilver notes Amanda was already speaking.

Brody says, "I think he was talking to 4."

Amanda humphs "I was typing my "more"

4 uses a four letter word for euch then.

Amanda is done now

Aleksei says, "bowl?"

Icarus thinks that in the simplest way, what all of this boils down to is: As a MUSH, as OS, as whatever we are, we're sitting here reaffirming our cultural identity. From a policy and code standpoint, what we're really trying to do is defrag our scattered identity, so to speak, rather than retool or fix anything.

Brody says, "No, we're going to retool chargen, to be certain. But it's also a reaffirming, to an extent. :)"

4 has a point to make about retooling but is waiting for her turn.

4 will then either be hung out to dry or made a god. maybe both.

<Underworld> Norm has connected.

Brody says, "Dlof, the floor is yours."

Hammer neither. "Your typing will be made fun of."

Hammer knew it.

4 says, "Alright, this is not an org. idea. Its the product of a conv i had w/ bro."

4 says, "We were talking about retooling the MUSH, i won't give details but...."

Denson says, "Conversion? Convulsion? Convertible?"

Aleksei says, "Convention, Den."

4 says, "How would you folks feel about consolidating the MUSH once more, doing it in a way thats IC, wouldn't change yoru chars any though it WOULD change your surroundings consierably and which ultimately would lead to a MUSH where new players don't really NEED to know any of our extensive bg but where that extensive bg still exists and can be pulled from."

Icarus says, "Sounds like you're trying to promise everything to everyone. :>"

Scyphus says, "We're trashing the universe? Oh, I'm SO there."

Scyphus claims dibs on the BIG hammer.

Freyssinet says, "That's not clear, Dolf. What would be that consolidation?"

Silvereye doesn't think you can launch Sanc2 from a position of weakness.

Denson says, "I get Nexus vibes from this."

Kastaprulyi agrees with Silver.

Quicksilver echoes Silver

Aleksei says, "or from the Lemmings or Drakians."

Valerie says, "My knee-jerk gut reaction? "AAIIEEEEEEE!""

Hammer eyeshifts. Saw alternate universe.

Bahamut notes that the Drakarians didn't change the Universe. :>

Hammer Mobiousverse.

Valerie says, "Give me time and I could quantify that. But right now? AAIEEEE!!"

4 shakes her head to frey, "I'm not clarifying anything, just asking for the general vibe to the overall concepts. Feedback."

Eucharius joins in the AIEEEE

Silvereye wants any decision to drastically change the canonical environment be made as a story device and not as a way to 'jump-start' the MUSH.

4 nods to Silver, "of coruse."

Halloway agrees with Silver, and also thinks the idea has merit. "I like consolidation."

Amanda agrees we don't want to necessarily re-run the same block

Brody nods. "You might notice the paranoid Phyrrian Overmind arc has lapsed into quietude due to lack of activity overall."

Andreo arrives from Dream Nexus.

Andreo has arrived.

Silvereye nods. "It just sounds that way when brought up from the position of this meeting. Frankly when I first heard about it I thought it'd be the death of us."

Volouscheur says, "I like the idea of consolidation, I guess, but I'm kind of curious and wary about /how/ the environment will change."

Kastaprulyi says, "It's a heck of a lot better than trashing the character and starting over, but you do need to convince all your players not to pick up and leave. Doing something exciting should be because it's time, not because you think things are getting dull. Trying to liven things up artifically leads to comic book style one-upmanship"

Kastaprulyi says, "Plus, we have plenty of room for growth right here."

Quicksilver says, "I've got two sort of points in mind. I know when I mentioned trade, there was an immediate poke of "It isn't the trade we're missing." But hear me out on a thought. Some players, the Mikas and Jests and Marlans of this world, are self-starters. They don't need any other motivation than themselves to decide to fly off and create a scene on Quaquan, for instance, which Faux, Jackals, and AES all did. But the thing which trading did provide was a motivation for the intermediate players to move around. The ones who either 1) aren't self-starter enough to just decide to fly somewhere without a cargo. or 2) Are so pent up about 'my character must have a reason' that they won't move unless you can hand them a reason to go somewhere. Granted, people get annoyed at 2 when they won't come to an event, but they're also sometimes good RPers where they do sit. Trade gave people motivation to move without their having to be an event schedule or some such. It kept the MUSH flowing. On the subject of toys, I'd also point out something in our system conversions. Russkaya and Dolf (and others) did an excellent job of retooling all of our coded systems to get around some limitations and problems. But at the same time, I remember a lot of complaints that everything was only available on Ungstir and Sivad, where the primary admins were. The consoles and things on other planets were never restocked, for the most part. People *need* a reason to go to other planets beyond just having a self-starting captain. That's what trade and toys provided. And while there *were* people who just ran around getting money and buying toys (and always will be on any game at all), there were a lot of little RPs that had no major effect on the MUSH In general between random people encountering each other."

Denson says, "You mean we don't have comic book style one-upmanship in OS already? ;>"

Icarus says, "From just what you said Dolf? No, I don't like it, agreeing with Silv and Kas here."

Halloway says, "I think we may have too much room, Kas."

[OOC] Quicksilver meeps

4 notes you gusy wouldn't be very happy if folks gave out the details of an arc if thats what it turns into guys ;) so no, you can't have details.

Quicksilver didn't mean to hit enter :>

4 says, "again, we're talking general ideas. and thast what i want your feedback of."

Brody says, "No one said trade *isn't* missing, QS. We just said it's not THE problem. We do need some bells and whistles and we're going to get them."

Denson says, "Will we get them around Neidermeyer's neck?"

Volouscheur thinks that brings up the perpetual question of, who'll bell the Neider?

Aleksei says, "not me!"

Brody says, "Anyway, back to the consolidation idea..."

Freyssinet shakes her head. Can't make up myt mind with so few info, Dolf, so count me as no.

Hammer wants a Neidermeyer plushie. "So, we are looking to a new trade system, and a few more coded things to start filling in, perhaps some of Nec's stuff?

Silvereye is not opposed to this idea as it has been clarified to not be universe destroying in the Sanctuary sense. I think you can only do that once.

Everyone has been given one experience point! Confetti points brought to you

<Public> I don't play chars, I unleash them Volskywalker taunts.

Amanda nods " thinks we need to bring people here together for a short period of time just for the sake of doing a headcount and getting people who we have engaged but retooling for the long haul that's my hesitation

<Public> Hammer loves.

<Public> She Owns Me. Christian says, "YOu horrible person you."

Silvereye says, "I enjoy building things for the sake of building things, but I grow attached to unfinished storylines (of which Demaria is a graveyard) as much as the next person."

Everyone has been docked two experience points! Acid Rain negative points brought to you by: Fishbreath!

Brody thinks it might as well be said that the entire idea behind the Phyrrian arc was to lead a Cylon-style warpath, with the entire MUSH ending up on the Orphic for a while. "Probably just three months, instead of six, and without a total wipe of the past MUSH. It'd lead to an arc where the playerbase hangs out together on the Orphic, actually fights the Phyrrians to get their worlds back over time, and maybe keeps the enemy faction out there."

<Public> 1=2 Fishbreath says, "That's taunting."

Brody says, "But when players aren't around for the warpath, it can't happen organically ;D So, we'll put it off until we have a playerbase to terrorize."

Icarus says, "Sounds too much like redoing Sanc to me, to be honest."

Valerie says, "Well, I think with the consolidation thingie we were just talking about, we might run into the same problem that we did with Contagion: some people just really don't like being dragged along regardless of whether they'd really like to be in something big or not, then you get mass bitching and moaning which just isn't conducive to anything besides... more bitching and moaning. Plus, well, I'm sure I'm not the only onee who just... doesn't do drastic change. There, i said it, smite me if you want ;)"

Volauniiadae says, "Brody, the psychic, anticipating everything:P"

Kastaprulyi agrees with Val.

Halloway was never on Sanc, so it sounds good to her.

Brody says, "It *is* redoing Sanc. Y'know, some things aren't bad to repeat. Sanctuary was, in my opinion, our best time."

Bahamut says, "Worked with Shinara, on a smaller scale."

Valerie can't speak either way on Sanc, before my time.

Denson says, "Shinara was wonderful."

Swiftfoot nods at Val, same here.

<Public> Hammer wants to ask a question, since you filled us in where you're planning to go.

Kastaprulyi says, "Personally, I don't -like- my character being terrorized. It's not fun to RP."

Eucharius nods at Halloway. "Sanctuary looked like fun. I'd love to get in on something like that at some point."

<Public> Hammer also mischanneled.

Bahamut says, "It didn't force people to be there, but it served as a hub. Get a lot of people in one location, and hey - RP! :>"

4 notes you could live on Sanc and not be terrorized ;)

Brody says, "Go ahead, Hammer."

<Public> Aleksei says, "good, not just me who does that. :P"

Swiftfoot says, "The warpath sounds fun, but I could see how not having a populace around to terrorize would put a damper on it. :/"

Brody nods to Swifty.

Quicksilver says, "There used to be a lot of things you could do and not be terrorized."

Brody doesn't just want to flash-forward people to the Orphic. "What made it fun for Sanc was players watching ICly as Ungstir fell and then fleeing :)"

Halloway notes that she did get the impression that she was in a MUSH that was moving past its prime when she first created this character almost five years ago.

4 noddles in agreemen there. "For one of my chars spawned a whoel big thing."

Freyssinet nods. One of the best logs ever.

Eucharius says, "I think Sol Station was supposed to end up a hub. But it didn't."

Icarus says, "But we've been doing Alien invasion of the Arc for the past year, it seems like, which is part of my hesitation."

Kastaprulyi says, "I do like the idea of making something we have into an RP hub, but not forcing people to be there."

Quicksilver agrees. Note that it was the best log because of the social RP and reactions, not because of the invasion.

Hammer says, "Actully... it seems silly, so I'll cancel my question."

Brody nods to QS. "Because the players and the characters cared ;)"

4 notes thats rather difficul kas.

Amanda notes that pockets can develop in one place as much as anywhere else---arc magnet quirk sounds real important here though

Quicksilver puts forth the idea that OS has become so focused on the invasions and arcs that it loses sight of the day to day life though. People are only about the events here, it seems at times.

Kastaprulyi says, "Sanctuary when it wwas parked at Demaria was wonderfun in that regard, Dolf."

Brody says, "I should also say: The plan would be to allow players to stay on planets, if they choose. We'd be doing resistance events, unlike during Sanc."

Hammer says, "That was my question!"

Hammer says, "Yay!"

4 says, "but we're back to the org. problem"

Brody says, "None of this happens until we rebuild the playerbase, in any event."

4 says, "if you have a few folks on planets, they're not gonna really be involved in that much RP, even w/ resistence RP. There's a limit to how much we can do."

Silvereye nods. I'm what QS describes as a #2. I can't see a reason to leave.

Quicksilver moved to Chia because it was filled with day to day life. Noble parties and whatnot. With occasional wildling incursions.

Brody says, "Yeah, but Dolf, we do allow alts :)"

Bahamut will bring back Darktail and he'll /drag/ you there, Silv. :>

Brody says, "But all of this is down the road."

Scyphus wonders how much of that RP involved the Halagi?

Eucharius says, "As opposed to daily Wildling incursions and the occasional noble party, QS?"

4 nods and points to Silver, "Sorry to use you as an example silv, but you're one of the best RPers we have on here."

Quicksilver nods to Euch.

4 says, "but you're true to your char to a fault ;) Its why i love dragging you away from demaria every chance i get :)"

Hammer says, "Actully, I've seen plenty of day-to-day stuff. Naked fondling on New Luna, Kas playing a video game, socializing and beer... it's just overshadowed."

Silvereye pffts at Baha. "Demaria has natural fortifications."

Eucharius says, "And Theorians."

Scyphus says, "Yeah. rocks."

Quicksilver nods to the Overshadowed part.

Denson says, "Theorians don't exactly have a history of joining resistance movements. ;)"

Quicksilver misses his Theorian. Eyes the other two parts of it.

Eucharius says, "True, Denson."

Hammer says, "It happens when you have evil folks like Neidermeyer and Volari."

Scyphus says, "Sand. Sand is dangerous. And worms. And weird, fractious tribal warparties who've yet to rediscover TP. Yup, Demaria is well defending. >:)"

Eucharius had a Theorian, but then the other three parts left. :(

Brody nods. "Okay, so, the gist of the meeting: Chargen gets retooled, we get snooty again, more bad bios to publish, and we work on some gee-whiz gadgetry to keep people moving around a bit."

Volauniiadae says, "If people aren't complaining loudly they're apathetic, not happy."

4 wonders if she can retool @boot to @boot folks from one planet to the other.

Hammer says, "And we're not ending the overreaching story arcs either. :)"

Silvereye nods to Scyphus. We'd screw with them Phyrrians.

Denson says, "Sounds like an all-around YAY to me!"

Valerie happydances.

Kastaprulyi has a comment on something I've heard here a few times.

Brody nods to Kas.

Silvereye says, "It'll be like Dune."

Eucharius says, "Since we seem to be done, who wants to play the other three-quarters of Rayzakybi? :P"

Scyphus nodnods to Silver. I like that idea.

Aleksei says, "I thought Demaria WAS Dune. :P"

Denson says, "/A/ dune."

Brody says, "Dune with a posh resort."

Silvereye says, "Geographically, maybe."

Quicksilver says, "And maybe a focus on life over action? Personally, I'd like to see more appearances of admin focus on generating non-conflictual RP planetside. Some of the most acclaimed Brody logs have been the crazy Buteo. ;)"

Brody says, "That's up to the players, when they're back, QS."

Amanda handraises "if we're going to get a playerbase we need something running when they arrive or will lose em

Silvereye's soon to be published History of Demaria will show otherwise!

4 says, "QS, come online more often :) We got alot of that going on on Ungstir w/ the AES nowadays."

4 says, "atleast, i've seen quite a bit of it in the past few days"

Brody says, "Amanda, you better run some stuff, then :)"

Bini does her own little thing, but can't leave TK yet.

Halloway needs some conspiracies to uncover.

Scyphus stopped doing storytelling with Whitestripe, Quick, because of the sheer amount of work involved. And it tended to make the RP somewhat one-sided.

Silvereye says, "We love the Bini."

Kastaprulyi says, "Day-to-day RP is very hard to create on purpose, but it's why I'm here, QS."

Bini points to the crazy one-eyed child stealer.

Scyphus stares at Bini?

Bahamut looks up at Brody, "All done up there?"

Brody says, "Day-to-day RP is up there with voting and other symptoms of commitment to the game. It'll follow the other changes we need to make."

Scyphus says, "..."

Quicksilver nods to Kas. I can distill a lot of games I've left down to action overshadowing the day to day. Day to day builds relationships.

Silvereye also loves YT. I love Demaria. We're so cool. I need to give people reasons to go, things to talk about on Demaria.

Scyphus supposes he should get on with getting you married then, Silvereye.

Brody scampers down the dragon's back. "All finished."

4 will once more vounteer the Athena to anyone who wants to draaw some folks to the planet. Just @mail me w/ the planet

Eucharius says, "I think I'm going to despam. By going back IC, that is."

Brody waves

Denson says, "You want a log somewhere, Bro?"

Hammer says, "Hey, bout 3 hours log..."

Eucharius says, "Keep up the great discussion."

Kastaprulyi says, "I've heard a few people here say the ability to create new theme is decreasing. The speed of the Earth's rotation is decreasing too. No need for panic, no need to do the alien invasion again to "fix" the problem. Let's go back and wiki what we have already. There are infinitely many little holes in it, and a fair number of big gaping ones. There's enough theme creation for everyone who wants it. And if in ten more years we've mostly got this universe down, there's always the handful of other universes."

Eucharius thumbs-up.

Brody says, "Denson, that should probably go in the Wiki :D"

Silvereye nods to Scyphus. "But we need the Chalster."

Denson says, "Righto."

Volauniiadae idles hard

Swiftfoot says, "I'll volunteer the Jackal the same way. Especially if you're looking for less than legal RP :)"

Eucharius heads into Dream Nexus.

Eucharius has left.

Xanavezi arrives from Dream Nexus.

Xanavezi has arrived.

Bini heads into Dream Nexus.

Bini has left.

Brody wasn't doing the Phyrrian plot to 'fix' a problem. :D

Swiftfoot ooOOooOOoos and flinches away from the creepy one-eyed child stealer.

Brody says, "If I was, we'd just fast forward to it."

Silvereye thinks Kas is right. Wiki project is awesome, we need more contribution. Which includes myself.

Brody says, "Kas is definitely right about the Wiki."

Icarus says, "Wiki contributing is fun. :>"

Hammer says, "I think the Phyrrian plot sounds cool. Desert fights in Demaria, New Luna sailboats firing cannons, La Terre getting blown up."

Hammer anyways...

Brody chuckles.

Halloway says, "Are there any ships that are still fairly active?"

Brody says, "Jackal."

Brody says, "And Hammer's"

Swiftfoot nods. "The wiki is an awesome resource. It makes it -so- much easier to find needed information on a timely basis. That said, I should start contributing myself.

Aleksei says, "Athena and Artemis"

4 says, "Artemis is active. Athena hopefully will be."

Brody says, "Yeah"

Halloway may have need of a ship and an adventurous crew soon.

Brody says, "Wolfsbane is kinda active, if you count 'rocking back and forth' as active."

Denson says, "If you like illegal stuff, come hang out on the Triple Niner! I promise not to shoot you!"

Volouscheur knows that Merram is trying to get one, which...isn't the same thing at all as an active ship.

Brody eyeshifts.

Quicksilver has actually posted a little on the Wiki. Mostly adding himself to the history, but. ;) YOu'll all know I was there when I single-handedly conquered the universe 400 years ago, then gave it back in exchange for a life supply of sticky buns.

Kastaprulyi says, "Perhaps some worlds could decide to fight Phyrrians and some not? I think the existance of "normal" areas is important."

Bahamut says, "The "some not" wouldn't last very long. ;>"

Swiftfoot has hung out with Denson. Didn't get shot. Plus, he bought the drinks.

Denson points at Swift. "See? I'm nice to people."

Hammer snerks.

Brody says, "There would be resistance. I think I've pointed this out a couple of times."

Quicksilver wonders if Helga ever had her whale.

Silvereye nods to Kas. I'm going to start referring to you as our 'normality conscience'. "I'd like to be able to mix both, I think there should be tension but not necessarily fighting all the time."

Brody says, "The Orphic would be an option for people who WOULD escape. The rest could do the freedom fighter thing."

Kastaprulyi says, "I mean where there's a lack of resistance."

Denson says, "Colin? Probably waddling and babbling as we speak."

Hammer thinks a few worlds will give up without a fight, sure.

Brody says, "Like Earth."

Xanavezi will just sneak in and kype kids while everyone's busy fighting.

Silvereye says, "Let's pray that child was crushed during TK's destruction."

Aleksei says, "or Quaquan."

Brody says, "I doubt Quaquan would fold."

Freyssinet heads into Dream Nexus.

Freyssinet has left.

Bahamut says, "Quaquan would be all, "Can you juice Oranges?" and they'd be all, "Affirmative"."

Volouscheur thinks that Vollista would go hide underground again, like during the Kretonian invasion.

Denson says, "Naw, Colin is doing fine. Already doing the bending steel bar thing like his mom."

Aleksei says, "that's what I ment."

Bahamut spreads his wings. Takes flight back towards Fastheld.

Amanda is encouraged by having people here including herself that she hasn't seen in ages and wants rope to tie em down

Khan says, "Bahamut flies at warp speed!"

Hammer says, "His momma called."

Aleksei says, "or at Dragon speed."

Halloway has left.

Bahamut has left.

Valerie heads into Dream Nexus.

Valerie has left.

You head into Dream Nexus.

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