This is the first of a series of seminars intended to discuss directions for the theme of Necromundus, and establish some continuity among arcs and thematic ideas established by its current roleplaying population. As logged by Raeft.
Cephas arrives from Necromundus - City Center.
Cephas has arrived.
Raeft commences logging discussion. "So, Cephas, you and I were going over Evil vs. Good stuff before. Meldor raised the important point to me that the struggle of good vs. evil shouldn't consume the whole game. What think ye of that? If we DID have guilds, which I would like, where the rewards come in officially for good or evil, how do we keep from favoring players who get involved in that conflict, over ones who don't? Are there any specific things you'd like to see in the good v. evil system?
Ralisek arrives from Necromundus - City Center.
Ralisek has arrived.
You say, "Heyo Ralisek. Here for the discussion?"
Ralisek says, "Yep."
You say, "Good. The question I just posed is: "Meldor raised the important point to me that the struggle of good vs. evil shouldn't consume the whole game. What think ye of that? If we DID have guilds, which I would like, where the rewards come in officially for good or evil, how do we keep from favoring players who get involved in that conflict, over ones who don't? Are there any specific things you'd like to see in the good v. evil system?"
Cephas says, "It shouldn't consume the whole game, but it could work like Chia does."
You say, "I being ignorant, explain? You mean like noble houses?"
Cephas says, "Like sunkissed and shadow touched, actually."
You say, "I don't think that would work so well in Necromundus."
Cephas says, "Say we put an alignment into equipment - even crafted equipment taking on the alignment of its crafters."
Cephas says, "alignment of the grid then affects the strength of that equipment, for good or bad."
You say, "I'm more concerned with thematics and roleplay arising of this, systemics are secondary. But if we DID do that, the increase or decrease would have to be small."
Cephas says, "But noticeable."
Cephas says, "not enough to cripple it on a bad day or make it godly on a good day, but noticeable enough to affect someone's choice of gear."
You say, "Yes, that'll inspire people to use the +alignment system, but Bro's assured me that's somewhere on his to-do list anyway."
You say, "So, looking at the big picture, what can we do to stir up RP along the line of the base theme of "good and evil warring over Necromundus"?"
You say, "Any ideas for lengthy plots and subplots, and official agencies through which this kind of thing can be carried out?"
Cephas says, "Wellllll. If we entrust a bit of theme to the two alignment guilds...that frees us to create orders from Above and Below."
You say, "Yes. But I'd be against powers for those guilds beyond those that would be given to any other guild." Cephas says, "Most of the grid *should* be more or less neutral - but the two alignment guilds should solidly represent their respective sides."
You say, "I'd like to see some abilities for angels or demons based on world or personal alignment though."
Cephas says, "ooyes."
Ralisek says, "Role-play wise, usually there are a few characters that don't want to take sides, or just want to be 'peaceful', what your asking is how do we involved -them- into roleplay?"
You say, "No, Ralisek. Am asking how we involve those who want to be involved."
You say, "We're not forcing anyone."
Cephas says, "exactly."
Ralisek says, "Alright, hmm..."
Cephas says, "We could orchestrate battles, raids...hell, dungeon raids count too."
You say, "Although rewards in-game tend to help."
Cephas says, "dungeon raids to strengthen your own side, periodic battles that maybe strongly affect grid alignment one way or the other."
You say, "Was thinking some special quest areas for those with REALLY insane alignments in one direction or the other. And one for anyone who's risen BOTH to insane levels."
You say, "Moving away from good versus evil for the moment, what's your opinion of having more in-character events with pressing deadlines like freakfest, but more serious ones."
Cephas says, "I like that idea. Alignment locked areas."
Cephas says, "I like that as well...mystery plots maybe - we could arrange 'covert' attacks on each other. Mind you, I think that'd be to keep Arturius happy."
Ralisek says, "Should there be any battles, raids, etc, I'm a strong believer in those things affecting the enviroment that takes place, say the evil people burn A portion of whisperwood forest, that portion would be descripted as so."
You say, "Of concocting shared villains in set-pieces or areas that would be wiped out later on? You know, temporary competition. Maybe an area that, when added, had a lot of factional deeds and can change control depending on which faction is most powerful at the end."
You say, "I was about to get to that, Ralisek. :D" Cephas says, "schweet."
You say, "Influence to the environment, even subtle influence, is a great way to help players feel involved and as if they're having an input." Ralisek says, "I agree completely."
You say, "We CAN do tiny competitions now and then, one-shot events of the two fighting. Hell, I'd like to see RP-ed out dueling. Gods know I miss it, but that's just me. This IS Necromundus. As long as it doesn't wreck someone else's rp, it's allowed."
Cephas says, "Artifact hunts could be fun too."
You say, "Larger competitions could include, say, one evening where we revamp the Ring of Fire for a bit, allowing just anyone inside and planting special team boss monsters. Or catacombs which are one huge chain of mudquests."
You say, "Or puzzles."
Cephas says, "You know - standard fantasy theme? You must find the Pinky Bone of the Seven Fingered Mage of Arthek before the other side does, or Great Calamity Will Befall."" You say, "Leading to, yes, some kind of rare weapon. Not one of a kind, maybe, but the first of its kind... ha."
Ralisek pages: Also, another thing that can stir up rp is one side having some sort of scene where either an NPC or even better, a PC, tries to stray another PC from the opposing alignment to their side.
Cephas says, "and depending on who solves it first, damage or help to some part of the grid."
You paged Ralisek with 'We do that all the time. :P Thing is, if it works, the other side would murder us.'
You say, "Yep. But the question becomes: What part of the grid, and to what end?"
Ralisek pages: I'm not talking on a huge scale, but say a single member.
Ralisek says, "Say there was a 'contested area' that constantly shifted between good and evil depending on the outcome of these things?"
You paged Ralisek with 'Yes. A single member would make for an interesting evening, but we don't want to do the cliche tempter thing too much, so rarely if at all.'
Cephas says, "Isn't that contested area Necromundus?"
Raeft laughs. "On the grand scale, yes."
Cephas says, "could be any part of the grid then, depending on the quest we want to run."
You say, "But these portals are opening all the time, thing is, that means NEcromundus is growing, Or, and this may be the more interesting interpretation:"
Cephas says, "Whisperwood's a 'good' area, but its dungeons are pretty 'bad'."
You say, "Maybe the Ascendents and Descendents have been releasing one portal's seals at a time so their forces have time to fight over it."
Ralisek pages: I see.
Cephas says, "ooooo."
Ralisek says, "This is just a shot in the dark here, but what of the possiblity that -some- other players could see other's alignments? Say angels and demons could read the alignment of a human?"
You say, "I mean, there's no problem with a good guild and an evil guild inspiring RP as long as we don't force anyone into it. But if you make conflict, and it's interesting and well-done, people will come."
You say, "Oh, anyone can read alignment if they want, I'd say."
You say, "I'd think angels and demons definitely can."
Cephas says, "yep. I like the idea of angels and demons getting an insight into alignment."
Cephas says, "it'd provoke 'em to react one way or another."
You say, "Well, it's upto US to establish that. With logs for one thing."
You say, "The more people are visible here and RPing, and the more our store of logs and lore grows, the more people we'll bring in from elsewhere."
You say, "I'm going to go on another advertising and recruiting rampage soon, so it'll be good to have some structure set up."
Ralisek says, "So, have any ideas for a first major scene?"
You say, "Oh, too many ideas to count."
Ralisek says, "Is there any type of NPC (or PC I suppose) Head honcho of necromundus? Who may like, give an intro to the people of necromundus, explaining where they are, etc?"
You say, "But it'd be dependent on me setting up the whole evil guild thing, you see. I'm thinking of putting in a deedgiver, of course. And I wanted maybe three or four minor quests. I might run my murder mansion, an evening of puzzles, fun, and unmitigated evil. Also a scavenger hunt for a really incongruous item hidden in a room -description-, rather than just secreted somewhere."
You say, "Also, I'd assume that's Death. But we've generally avoided that."
Cephas says, "hmm. A hunt for excalibur or something...problem is my time is limited, and my cat's having medical issues. so my recruiting's on Arturius I think."
Ralisek says, "So, clan wise, right now, what do we have? All I know of is a lupoid clan and possibly an evil clan? (That's all i've heard, but i'm pretty new to this game, anyway._"
You say, "I'm handling the evil side, which I'll be working on soon. Cephas is doing Good, I think."
You say, "But, as he's said, time issue at the moment."
Cephas nods. "I have the Heavenly Chorus, the good clan."
Cephas says, "But time issues factor heavily."
Ralisek says, "I see."
Raeft nods. "I'll be a reprehensible enough enemy that they join without recruitment, Cephie."
Miran arrives from Necromundus - City Center.
Miran has arrived.
Brody arrives from Necromundus - City Center.
Brody has arrived.
Brody makes scary noises.
Miran is...a devil?
Cephas says, "Pfft. you make evil sexy, Raeft. Evil shall win without a fight, at least at the start." You say, "Welcome, Miran. We were just discussing "official" evil and good guilds, and ideas for ongoing story arcs and some fun competitive events we could have. I last suggested tempting mortals scenes, finding relics, influencing areas toward evil ends through deeds and mudquests, and fully rped combat between the forces of good and evil."
You say, "I do not make evil sexy."
Raeft hmms. "At least, I don't think I try to." :
Cephas says, "I don't mind. If Arturius ever gets his gear going, being heavily outnumbered will just make him happier. More targets."
Cephas says, "I swear he gets happier the more likely he is to be blown to bits. So yanno, heroic/suicidal odds, no problem."
Raeft grins! "That's what I like to hear. Now, I know your time is limited, Cephas, but we DO need more good people. Hrm..."
Miran says, "I think we'll probably see a development of highly conflicted chars. We already have some good ones- people who think they're being good but are kind of unpleasant, and vice versa."
Ralisek says, "I believe Garviel's clan will have a good "branch" to it, i'm not sure though, you'd have to ask."
You say, "People who think they're being evil but are kind of pleasant? But, yes, that's good. Someone needs to hate the evil dudes."
Ralisek says, "Thats why I suggested the "seeing" others alignments, so you can react in the proper way, i've already rp'ed a unique way of doing it for Ralisek personally." Cephas says, "Conflict is *good*, Miran."
You say, "The other issue is guilds. Player butler/guild deedgiver thingy, guild hall, etc. I'm gonna submit the +str tonight after I write a guildhall desc."
You say, "And then we'll have an evil guild. Of course, I might just salvage the League of Evil."
Cephas says, "The whole point of necromundus, as I understand it, is that contention between good and evil. So conflicted players become the RP battleground, as the sides try to win you over."
Ralisek says, "Exactly, I like Cephas' point."
Cephas says, "But demons and angels...should both be more powerful and more limited."
Ralisek says, "I tried to put my character icly in that 'middle ground' position."
Cephas says, "Powerful - alignment related skills, maybe portal related skills. But also limited, in that they more than anyone *must* be part of the underlying theme, directly answerable to the Powers."
Cephas says, "In effect, every demon and angel is automatically an arc magnet."
Cephas says, "kind of like phyrrians were, once, I think, when you could play them? They *HAD* to report back to/obey the Overmind's directives."
You say, "Well, I've concocted some abilities to propose to Bro soon, I'll throw in some alignment-dependent stuff from the angle of angels and demons. Also, since the arcs are going to be mostly (though I'll do anything adminly you need), player-driven, I do think we need to give consideration to what specifically we'll do. Also, there's no time like the present. I'll whip up an evil guild, advertise, and put a few events on +calendar, then begin preparing for them. Do you know when you WILL have time to be here, Cephas, as I'd like to angle it around that if possible? Also, moving away from good and evil entirely, what else do you think we should give consideration to as far as developing a coherent feel and a sense of being in a living, if undead, world?"
Cephas says, "Hmmm. Craftables."
Cephas says, "craftables, skills that make craftables..having said craftables mean something."
Miran says, "Purpose of the general player. Its all nice for a demon or angel to have a purpose, but what about the rest? Is there an advantage for them to work for outside of determining purgatorial achievements?"
You say, "Okay, How so? You mean racial craftable skills? Craftables only useable by certain races or classes? Yes, Miran. There'd be advantages given out by the guilds and the competitions for helping, presumably."
Miran says, "Would it be mandated that you support one side or the other? I know some players have expressed a desire to balance between the two as much as possible"
Cephas says, "craftables period, really. That could be suggested by PCs, as Garviel suggested axes."
Ralisek says, "I'd say that might make sense, say a healer could whip up some type of herb-remedy or something?"
You say, "They already have the skill for it, we just haven't implemented those yet, Ralisek."
Cephas says, "once you reach 50, a lot of things become oh so pointless. Crafting would be a reason to hang around."
You say, "Naw, we said at the start that neutral people can stay neutral, and those who align won't get TOO many advantages."
Ralisek says, "That and good RP."
You say, "Yes, that and events, Cephas."
You say, "The whole point of making some ongoing RP underlay would be just that." Cephas says, "yes, but I mean when there are no events."
Raeft is shortly going to complete a new area in Urland, and is thinking of building some overreaching month-long or more quest INTO it, with puzzles people can solve in my absence, and +calendared events where specific npcs (puppets by me, for example) will interact with players. Oh, yes, crafting then. I suppose. Also new areas, rewards of some type or another for long-standing players. Badges!
Raeft paradoxically had a thought that one good way to do things in Necro would be to let some rewards cross the barrier to Chiar or OS:M for some events, now that we're all in the same place.
You say, "But it's a stupid idea that would never work."
Ralisek says, "Events also tend to leave an after-event rp, say, the town is destroyed, theres gonna be some rp after that initial scene, hopefully, between players."
Ralisek says, "Thats completely hypothetical by the way."
Cephas says, "...we could do very long term arcs."
Cephas says, "About, for example, opening a new portal. To a good area, or an evil one? maybe events determine what kind of place gets added first."
Cephas says, "Or about whether a city or portal is destroyed/closed...those could go on for months."
Ralisek says, "I like that idea. Say evil wins the first battle, some type of portal opens..?"
You say, "We could consider it, yep. But, walk before we run. Moving away from good/evil, any other ideas?"
Ralisek shrugs, "Not at the moment.'
Cephas says, "have to agree - not at the moment."
Ralisek says, "Rewards for people who intend ooc meetings! ;D"
Raeft pffts. "Attend, you mean? And sure!"
Ralisek says, "Attend, too!"
Raeft tosses out OOC candy.
You say, "There."
Miran frowns. "I don't like this kind."
Miran says, "I might have missed that, but did we set any standards about appearance interpretation?"
Cephas says, "Personally, I'd say angels and demons can probably *assume* any form, but not perfectly - that any form they assume has some cue to it (that isn't all that subtle) about their true nature."
You say, "I'd like to raise some food for thought, and we'll do this again in future: What kind of direction would you like to see Necromundus' story go in? Where would it end? Should we have ongoing villains, problems that force good and evil to band together? Should Colonel White bludgeon Mrs. Scarlet to death in the Atrium with the Laptop Computer? Ah, no."
You say, "Righto. And I say it's upto the player."
Cephas says, "...Not good and evil to band together, but I'd love to see plots that make the choice between good and evil HARD for a player."
You say, "If someone wants to RP as a were-cat, and look like a human sometime and a felinoid the rest, why not?"
Raeft chuckles. "Like if evil wants to save an orphanage full of demon children, and good wants to have them torn apart by wild tortoises?
Cephas says, "because if someome chooses without thinking it's nothing. someone choosing when it's hard, that's meaty character stuff."
Cephas says, "eh. Maybe."
Ralisek says, "Indeed."
Ralisek says, "Very meaty."
Cephas says, "...evil is, at heart, choosing what's best for you. Good, at heart, is choosing what's best for everyone even if it ISN'T good for you personally."
Cephas says, "We could build smaller arcs around the temptation of just one neutralish PC."
Ralisek says, "Like myself."
Cephas says, "yep."
You say, "Was thinking that too, of course. But evil is not, at heart, choosing what's best for you, methinks."
You say, "Not for demons here anyway."
Miran says, "I agree"
Ralisek says, "For some, it may be, others not."
You say, "It's getting others to pick what serves them best. I'd argue for the seven classical sins, too."
Cephas says, "Demons get other people to choose what's best for themselves, regardless of the cost to others."
Cephas says, "yeh."
Miran says, "I think a lot of it is how the players reconcile it in themselves. Some people may be acting in what they feel is a hugely noble way...and not be 'good' people."
Miran says, "Ultimately, everyone, it could be argued, acts out of self interest."
Ralisek says, "I see your point."
Miran says, "So if we presume to set definitions of what good and evil are, I bet we will see it fall apart. I'd let people decide what it means to themselves."
Ralisek says, "Yay, episode 4! Uhh..Anyway...I would like to see, however, an influence from evil and good sides, on its members."
Raeft ahs. "How do you mean?"
Cephas says, "I claim immunity in advance."
You say, "Immunity from what?"
Cephas says, "Arturius is not so much a soldier for Good, as Good's vicious insane killer attack dog. Best we can do is put a choke chain on him."
Miran says, "And thats the point. How 'ethical' is it of the Good side to employ such a soldier?"
Cephas says, "And I mean *insane*. Far as I can tell, sometimes he'll kill evil, and sometimes he'll snuggle it."
Cephas says, "Beats me. I just inherited him. I'm gonna have to find out if I can beat him upside the head with an oar."
Miran says, "I'm gonna go with no. He's 'morally righteous' but he follows his own moral code."
Miran says, "but thats off topic."
Ralisek says, "I meant some type of head honcho, pc or not, that gives some sort of direction as to what could be done next in the campaign of good vs evil."
Ralisek says, "One (or multiple) for each side of course."
Cephas says, "I think that fell to me and raeft for now."
Miran can't help but feel that undermines ineffibility...
Cephas says, "On a day to day. I feel certain general staff will start meddling as soon as they see something shiny."
Miran says, "So far, the players are coming up with their own RPs quite well. Look at the bar fight the other night."
Ralisek says, "I just meant a subtle touch, not something too overwhelming."
You say, "I doubt anything is off topic, BUT, I would say that I might move Raeft to more of a PC/NPC intermediary. This is Necro, there's not the usual issue of admins playing charas."
You say, "Thus, I'll do my best to provide SOME IC evil direction, and will start a guild and recruit"
Ralisek says, "Yeah, something along those lines, still allowing the players to react to the direction the way they want to."
You say, "Aye. Then I'll plan events. Cephas and I will try to find a time when we can both be around to work on it. So, any other thoughts?"
Miran says, "Maybe a follow up in a few weeks?"
Cephas says, "sounds good to me."
You say, "You've got it. We'll pick this back up. Ix is sadly too late."
Phoenix arrives from Necromundus - City Center.
Phoenix has arrived.
Ralisek says, "Should we log this meeting?"